(;GM[1]FF[4]ST[2]RU[Japanese]C[ we'll continue the subject "avoiding crude moves in joseki".
]
AP[CGoban:2]SZ[19]CA[UTF-8]DT[2005-11-06]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http\://kgs.kiseido.com/]
PB[teacher]BR[9d]PW[teacher]WR[9d]KM[6.5]MULTIGOGM[1]

(;B[qd]CR[qd]C[
]
(;W[nc]CR[nc];B[lc]CR[lc];W[qc]CR[qc];B[pc]CR[pc];W[pd]CR[pd];B[qb]CR[qb];W[rc]
CR[rc];B[od]CR[od];W[pe]CR[pe];B[oc]CR[oc]C[
];W[rb]CR[rb];B[of]CR[of];W[oe]CR[oe]
;B[ne]CR[ne]C[ so
]
(;W[qe]CR[qe]C[ here this is a common joseki
 pls remember such a shape
 often seen in real games
 see another shape?
Student2 [12k\]\: yes
]
;B[nd]CR[nd])
(;W[pf]CR[pf]C[ white blocking at q14 is a bad move
 if you take b, where will u play?
 to punish w
Student4 [13k\]\: q13?
 no other answers?
Student2 [12k\]\: i cant think of one
Student3 [19k\]\: s15?
Student4 [13k\]\: or r14, or s16 xD
]
(;B[pg]CR[pg]C[ actually q13 is the correct one
]
(;W[nf]CR[nf]C[wrong answer];B[qf]CR[qf]C[
];W[og]CR[og];B[qe]CR[qe];W[of]CR[of]
;B[ph]CR[ph];W[nd]CR[nd];B[nb]CR[nb];W[me]CR[me];B[pb]CR[pb]C[ if w tries to counterattack
 the corner dies
])
(;W[re]CR[re];B[nf]CR[nf]LB[rf:A][qg:B]C[ so w will defend at s15
 b has a,b two sentes
 much better than the joseki for b
]))
(;B[re]CR[re];W[nd]CR[nd];B[nb]CR[nb];W[nf]CR[nf];B[me]CR[me];W[rf]CR[rf]C[ s15 is a bit overplay
 b can't run now

])
(;B[rd]CR[rd];W[re]CR[re]C[ and s16 is overplay too
])
(;B[qf]CR[qf];W[qe]CR[qe];B[pg]CR[pg];W[re]CR[re];B[nf]CR[nf]LB[qe:B][qf:A]C[ compare with b play at q13 first
 the exchange of a,b is damaged

])))
(;W[dd]CR[dd];B[dq]CR[dq];W[pp]CR[pp];B[co]CR[co];W[oc]CR[oc];B[ld]CR[ld];W[of]
CR[of];B[qg]CR[qg];W[ph]CR[ph];B[qh]CR[qh];W[pi]CR[pi];B[qi]CR[qi];W[pj]CR[pj];B[qk]
CR[qk];W[pe]CR[pe];B[qe]CR[qe]C[ this is an old joseki
];W[jd]CR[jd]
;B[lf]CR[lf];W[lh]CR[lh];B[jf]CR[jf]C[ so
 through these shapes
 we see l15 is a bad move
 don't cut such a shape randomly
]
(;W[ke]CR[ke]C[ now
 w peeping b
 at l15
 it looks like powerful
 but the result after this cut is usually not good.
 for w
]
(;B[le]CR[le]C[ b connecting at m15 maybe the first thought
 but it is too heavy
]
;W[kf]CR[kf];B[kg]CR[kg];W[lg]CR[lg]
(;B[id]CR[id];W[kd]CR[kd];B[ic]CR[ic];W[lc]CR[lc]C[ The 3 stones at m16 are dead.
 clearly bad for b])
(;B[jc]CR[jc]C[ and if b runs
];W[id]CR[id];B[kd]CR[kd];W[je]CR[je]
;B[ic]CR[ic];W[hd]CR[hd];B[hc]CR[hc];W[gd]CR[gd];B[gc]CR[gc];W[fd]CR[fd]C[Student2 [12k\]\: white has a buddy
 hehe
 b makes life inside
 but w gets a great wall \:)
 b is lost
]))
(;B[kf]CR[kf]C[ so this is the correct move.
];W[le]CR[le];B[me]
CR[me]
(;W[md]CR[md];B[ne]CR[ne];W[nd]CR[nd];B[id]CR[id]C[ b o15 then j16 are tesujis
 w's shape is so soft
Student2 [12k\]\: o15 good
]
;W[ic]CR[ic]C[Student2 [12k\]\: wouldnt have tought of it
Student2 [12k\]\: m16 has some aji too
]
;B[hc]CR[hc]C[ hehe
 yes
 not atari
]
;W[jc]CR[jc];B[je]CR[je];W[kd]CR[kd];B[he]CR[he]LB[pd:B][lh:A]C[ now it is the opposite of the last diagram
 w is inside
 and b gets the wall
 since b became thick
 the attack stone at A is completely useless
 and b could even threaten w's group after the cut at B.

]
;W[tt];B[lc]CR[lc]C[for yose];W[lb]CR[lb];B[ib]CR[ib]C[
];W[jb]CR[jb];B[hb]CR[hb]
C[
])
(;W[mf]CR[mf]C[ if w cuts here
];B[mg]CR[mg];W[nf]CR[nf];B[id]CR[id]
C[ j16 is still the key point
]
(;W[kd]CR[kd];B[ic]CR[ic];W[lc]CR[lc];B[md]CR[md];W[mc]CR[mc]LB[je:A]C[ b still sacrifices m16 two stones
 A is sente
]
;B[df]CR[df])
(;W[ic]CR[ic]C[ and if w blocks
];B[jc]CR[jc]C[ b k17 is a good tesuji
]
;W[md]CR[md];B[je]CR[je];W[ne]CR[ne];B[kd]CR[kd]C[ w collapses
]))))
(;W[hd]CR[hd]C[ w h16 is the correct move
];B[kd]CR[kd]C[ b has to defend the cut after h16
]
;W[je]CR[je];B[ke]CR[ke];W[kg]CR[kg];B[kf]CR[kf];W[fd]CR[fd]C[ an even game
 any questions for this shape?
Student2 [12k\]\: nope
 ok, let's see another
])))
(;B[pd]CR[pd]
(;W[nc]CR[nc];B[jd]CR[jd];W[tt];B[pp]CR[pp];W[pf]CR[pf];B[of]CR[of]C[ when b plays p14
]
(;W[og]CR[og]C[ this is a normal response
])
(;W[pe]CR[pe]LB[od:B][oe:A]C[ if w play here, where will you choice?
 i give you two points 
Student2 [12k\]\: B
Student3 [19k\]\: A

]
(;B[oe]CR[oe]C[ well...
 but w won't cut you
];W[qd]
CR[qd]C[ this is cool move for w
Student4 [13k\]\: >.<
]
(;B[pc]CR[pc];W[qc]CR[qc]C[ so
]
(;B[od]CR[od];W[pg]CR[pg]C[ if b extend
s
 w will take the corner
 then b has a bad shape
]
;B[md]CR[md];W[qn]CR[qn]LB[pb:A][lc:B]C[ w gets sente
 left with sente yose at A
 and bad aji around B
Student4 [13k\]\: big ouch
 so this is definitely bad for b
])
(;B[pb]CR[pb];W[pg]CR[pg];B[nd]CR[nd]C[ for b q18 is better
 get a good shape and no more sente yose for w left behind
 but since w played a crude move at q15
Student4 [13k\]\: p16 is better than q15
 p14 is the normal choice, instead of q15
]))
(;B[oc]CR[oc];W[qc]CR[qc];B[nd]CR[nd];W[pg]CR[pg]LB[ob:A][mc:B]C[ almost the same
 w gets the big corner
 and b left with bad aji
]))
(;B[od]CR[od]C[
]
(;W[oe]CR[oe];B[nd]CR[nd];W[ne]CR[ne];B[md]CR[md]C[ if w kill the p14 stone
 then b will captures o17 
 it is very big
 w's wall can't compare to that
])
(;W[og]CR[og];B[nd]CR[nd]C[ so w p13 is better
 but after o16
 the o17 stone is still controlled
 q15 is a bad move
 all clear? \:)
Student2 [12k\]\: yep
]))))
(;W[qp]CR[qp];B[dq]CR[dq];W[dc]CR[dc];B[oq]CR[oq];W[lp]CR[lp];B[on]CR[on];W[qm]
CR[qm];B[pl]CR[pl];W[ql]CR[ql];B[pk]CR[pk];W[qk]CR[qk];B[pj]CR[pj];W[qj]CR[qj];B[pi]
CR[pi];W[ip]CR[ip];B[ce]CR[ce];W[de]CR[de];B[df]CR[df];W[ee]CR[ee];B[cd]CR[cd];W[cc]
CR[cc];B[gc]CR[gc];W[ic]CR[ic];B[ge]CR[ge]C[ now 
]
(;W[ff]CR[ff]C[ w goes out
];B[ch]CR[ch];W[lc]CR[lc]C[ and settles the j17 stone 
 it is the common play of w
])
(;W[ef]CR[ef];B[dg]CR[dg];W[eg]CR[eg];B[dh]CR[dh];W[hd]CR[hd];B[gd]CR[gd];W[hf]
CR[hf]C[ trying to kill b like this
 which gives b a lot of points on the left first
 then enclose b
 it is overplay
 and too risky
 a typical kyu's killing move
Student2 [12k\]\: i learned that from mistakes ^^
 \:)
]
;B[he]CR[he];W[ie]CR[ie];B[if]CR[if];W[gf]CR[gf]C[ also
 for b
]
(;B[je]CR[je]C[ b cutting w first is the only move
];W[id]CR[id]
;B[ig]CR[ig];W[kd]CR[kd]C[ but k15 then j13
 they are histy move
 moves
 after w l16
 b dies])
(;B[ec]CR[ec]C[ b e17 is the shape
 a good tesuji
]
;W[dd]CR[dd]C[ w must connect
];B[ib]CR[ib];W[jb]CR[jb];B[je]CR[je]
;W[id]CR[id];B[hb]CR[hb];W[kc]CR[kc];B[fb]CR[fb]LB[db:A][fd:B]C[ a,b miai
 b lives
]
;W[nc]CR[nc];B[ig]CR[ig];W[hh]CR[hh]C[ but then
 w's surrounders are separated.
]
;B[cn]CR[cn]C[ w gives b a big territory first than gets two weak groups
 clearly bad
])
(;B[ib]CR[ib];W[jb]CR[jb];B[hc]CR[hc];W[id]CR[id];B[ha]CR[ha];W[kc]CR[kc];B[eb]
CR[eb];W[ec]CR[ec];B[fb]CR[fb];W[db]CR[db];B[gb]CR[gb]LB[ja:B][ka:A]C[ even though b can get life too with j18 then h17
 it makes w much stronger on the outside.
 A and B are sente for w
 j18 and h17 are bad moves
 so...any questions?
]))))
(;B[pc]CR[pc];W[qe]CR[qe];B[qg]CR[qg];W[pg]CR[pg];B[qf]CR[qf]C[ the same crude move
 b r14 to cut w
 seems so severe
]
;W[pf]CR[pf];B[pe]CR[pe]C[ but now
 w has a tesuji
 could you find it out?
Student2 [12k\]\: s15?
Student4 [13k\]\: b just extends if s15
 Student3? \:)
Student3 [19k\]\: sorry, don't know
 np
]
(;W[re]CR[re]LB[pd:A][qh:B]C[ yes s15 is the correct move
 a,b miai
]
(;B[qh]CR[qh];W[pd]CR[pd];B[oe]CR[oe];W[od]CR[od];B[ne]CR[ne];W[qc]CR[qc]C[ b's corner is destroyed
]
;B[oh]CR[oh]C[ and black has to spend one more move to defend
 the corner is too big
 good for w 
])
(;B[ph]CR[ph]C[ not working either
];W[qh]CR[qh];B[rh]CR[rh];W[qi]
CR[qi];B[rg]CR[rg];W[ri]CR[ri]C[ b dies
]))
(;W[pd]CR[pd]C[ q16 is a crude move too
];B[oe]CR[oe];W[od]CR[od]
;B[qd]CR[qd];W[re]CR[re];B[nd]CR[nd];W[qh]CR[qh]C[ now though w kill the two r13 stones
 b's corner is much bigger
 and stronger
 w gets nothing
 any questions for this shape?
 overplay move and crude move are most often seen in the fights...
 so you have to pay more attention to shape and read more when you are fighting. 
 now we'll see some shapes in real fights.
])))